Hello Everyone...thanks so much for having me speak to you on Thursday. I thoroughly enjoyed your participation and feedback, and I will be responding to some of your comments over this weekend.
In the meantime, if any of you wish to discuss aesthetics as it relates to photography, or indeed any aspect related to our discussions, please feel free to post comments on the aesthetics blog site.
Many thanks again.
David Glen
20 comments:
Having an open discussion on the core issues of aesthetics means making the connection between the intention of the artist/photographer etc, the subject under aesthetic consideration and finally the viewer who can share the experience of the artist via and aesthetical pathway.
Dave, I trust each student who listened and viewed your presentation will find some part of the process to reflect upon from the conception, elaboration, and conveyance of the message or content of the work at hand.
Thanks for starting the discussion on the blog site so we can all look in on the developing discussion.
Bill
Dave, thank you so much for your participation in our class. I was gripped by your explanation of the difference between the American and European approaches to documentary photography. I could never put words to what it is that bugs me about American tabloids, but now I do. It's that cold hearted mentality that the paparazzi has to get the picture that sells magazines. Those kinds of pictures destroy people and the lives around them. The European approach, the approach that you show in your work, is what should be filling the magazine racks. Images that edify others and lift up their differences instead of thrashing them and degrading them. People want to know other peoples stories. Good or bad, people want to know what happens to others. Its our human nature to want to relate to people. Your kind of photography is better suited for the purpose of relaying peoples stories to the world. In a way, I feel that your approach tells the truth about people. Where as the American Tabloids tell what's ugly about celebrities and people in power to make them "human". What's really going on is those tabloids are telling the common man that he/she is trash and not worth anything and that these people that have gifts are no better than the trash that the common person is. I hope I make myself clear here. I feel that if magazines strived to tell the true story of someone and revealed them to the world in an edifying way, we would still want to hear about it, and maybe even expect that for ourselves. If we all edified each other instead of bringing each other down, we could really become something great. That is one reason why I am touched by what artists like you do. You have a heart for a certain group of people and you tell their story in an edifying way that tells us the viewer that these people are worth caring about, and that we should do something about it. It is quite a heavy thing to think about and I am grateful for this realization. Thank you again for coming and adding this other layer to the world of aesthetics.
I really enjoyed the presentation last class. I think the one really important point David emphasized was the individuality of Aesthetic point of view. I totally agree that what I am passionate about is going to dictate the core of what I find Aesthetically pleasing in all mediums. One of the most frustrating topics for me as an Animator and fan of comics and games is that these genres are not considered art by some people. What really matters though it what it means to me, how I define it. My life is defined by the things I am passionate about, just as David is dedicated to saving the children of the world, which inturn empowers his work as awell as draws him tot he work of others who speak the same artistic lagunage. I am the same way with the worldly causes and moral standards I hold above all else. It is these standards that draw me to certain types of art. I love the recruiting posters for World War II, for example. Not because they are justifying a greusome war, but they are inspiration during dark times. They convey that humanity has he choice to over come its ugliness and fight to be better. Is that not what fantasy and super heroes are all about? Aesthetics is about an ideal. I have an ideal for what humanity could be and that is what I look for, work for, create for. Saving the world through the things you are passionate about.
Rebecca Kramp
Hi David, thank you for your visit last week to our Aesthetics class. I really enjoyed the discussion that you brought to our class. One of the things that i never knew that there was a different classification to photographic approaches, The European and the American. Its obvious that they are two different ways of capturing a moment and personally I find the European technique far more interesting.
I think all artist try to capture or convey some sort of message in thier work, i know i do, and although I'm sure that the American approach has its place the European technique deffinatley has more heart to it. I think that when the photographer uses the European approach he is able to bring that connection he had with the subject to the viewer. I think we connect with that better, as human beings we all share the same emotions and its when we can relate to someone on a more personal level our whole idea of what that person may or may not be goes out the window. Once we're connected it seems that we decide to take the time to understand that person as an individual rather than group or associate them with a whole.
Aaron Spencer
David, thank you for showing all the visuals in class. They were all very beautiful, and every bit of your aesthetic appreciation of life and what the camera can bring to envoke emotion was all displayed so well through the presentation. All of the photographers that you mentioned, showing their work had touched something deep within me. I can appreciate photography for the message it sends, the impact it has on the viewers. Many artist who try to capture that moment tend to fail with intentions of waiting for that one shot, but hearing the dedication it took to visit locations, speak to the people whose lives interest you making them a story, but not just a tangable story, but something that represents meaning. I wanted to ask a question about but the class had ran out of time.
What assignment from all of your recent travels felt the most significant to you? I remember you saying that there were places that you traveled to and it left you in tears watching the environment empathizing with the people in there areas, but what made you literally break down and question life and for all its worth, make you feel sick that your uncovering a truth that people choose not to mention, but just overlook?
I just remember you telling that story about the father who uses his oldest son for prostitution... that story was one that I've seen on television once before, but is never broadcasted as such meaningless tabloids as brittney spears. Do you feel that society issues are focused on all the wrong issues?
For Kris, Shark, Mijo, and Aaron...
I'm so glad that my words had such an impact on the way you look at things.
Aaron asked me a couple of great questions and I'd like to address them.
First, Aaron asked what specific assignment felt the most significant to me. Every time I go out into environments where kids are in danger, I find myself re-assessing the ludicrous things people consider as priorities.
Last year, I was in Romania, and was able to gain the confidence of a small gang of street kids aged between 6 and 14 years old. They all earn their living as prostitutes or pick-pockets...yes, even the six year olds. These kids took me to the area of Bucharest where they spend their nights in the city's sewers, under the streets...the only warm place they are able to find. The whole thing is very territorial, with kids split into small cliques almost like the kids in Golding's "Lord of the Flies". In fact, the very issues many of them are facing are the same as those addressed by Golding in an allegorical sense.
I spent about 4 hours down in their cramped section of Bucharest's sewer system, and photographed as best I could the dire conditions in which they sleep amidst the stench of human waste. They use candles for light, and even for heating food or drinks in empty tin cans. They huddle together for warmth, and there is a hierarchy of leadership, and even some attempt to care for the younger kids. Many of them escape from this sordid reality by sniffing glue.
In the morning, they push aside man-hole covers, and rise into Bucharest's bustling streets for another day of begging, pick-pocketing, and all the trappings of survival on the streets of one of the world's many impoverished cities. The experience has left an indelible mark on me.
Aaron then asked if I thought that society in the West is focused on the wrong issues. It seems to me that we are so off-base on what's truly important for humanity that it would be comical were in not for the very stark reality of the plight of children in places like Romania, and even on America's streets. It seems that we are more willing to focus on the glitz and glamour of our idols and celebrities--even those have have voluntarily screwed up their lives--than on those real issues that stem from abject poverty.
I have never understood this in the human condition and perhaps I never will. But rather than throw my hands in the air in desperation, or submit to cynicism, I have determined to do something about it, if even in the smallest way.
If all of us were to do this, the effect would be extraordinary.
David
I also would like to thank you David, I viewed the slideshow you presented to my History of Rep. Painting Class last semester with the school children as well, and I must say both presentations were striking.
I felt that the level of intensity for your images were shocking but not overboard, it was enough to really sense the horror and reality of such a tragedy. Following that presentation, I haven't been able to look at the world the same, finding it hard to complain about much anymore when I can only imagine what it must be like for those children in Romania for example.
In reference to your recent presentation, I was particular taken by your view of Aesthetics, I have heard many definitions but I think that it being "what you care about most" really stands strong. Being an aspriring portrait/figurative artist I have always been enamored by the diversity of people as well as what lies beneath the surface. I have always been drawn to realism not just objectively but subjectively as well, because there is a connection to humanity that resonates with me.
What matters most when I paint a portrait, is that I too connect with the individual, because the act of a portrait is a very intimate situation. It is essentially a silent exploration of the interior and exterior of a person's character and life experiences. I try to approach every portrait that I compose like that the European approach you mentioned.
I disdain idealization because it is only facade, and neglects to highlight the true beauty and uniqueness of every person. When I look at your work Dave as well as your contemporaries,I feel the same kind of resonance which all stems from the connection with your subjects.
The most rewarding part in viewing your work and hearing you speak Dave is your sincerity and your connection with your subjects. In my opinion that's what makes a work of art great and timeless.
Once again I thank you for your time and words,being in a bubble I truly am clueless to the rest of the world. I find comfort knowing that there are individuals like yourself who uphold such integrity and compassion.
In response to Dave's answering of Aaron's questions...
I think it was the story of Bucharest that captured me most in class, so it was nice to hear a little more about it in this response. The thought of that being a daily routine for someone who should be looking forward to recess in kindergarten rather than if someone will want to pay to have sex with them deeply disturbs me. Somehow though I feel the need to try to force myself to be dispassionate, as I know that there is nothing that I can do to change them. Is there ever a sense of hopelessness being so close and yet so removed from the situation? I don't know that I could handle being in your shoes even though I am beyond impressed by the situations in which you have willingly gone. It seems that although you can barely stomach some of the situations you've encountered that you understand your role as part of the pack and capturer of their humanity rather than savior of the world. It might be that you are able to save more by capturing these images than by personally seeking to save each individual anyway.
thank you for sharing your photos, insights, and stories with us
Brittany Warner-Smith
Dave, I thank you for your presentation on your aesthetic view through photography and how you spoke with such conviction towards your subject. However I dont think that photography has a high quality of artistic realization because its a moment frozen in time, and can is the most naturalistic form of "art". What I do consider photography to be is the most powerful storytelling tool around if used properly. The slides you showed us were strong examples of this.
What really interested me about your photography was the series you talked about of Cindy. I used to work at a coffee shop that she came into. I spoke with her a few times and made a small bond with the her, and I really wished you would've have shown those pictures because I know Id be able to connect with them.
Again, thank you David for the insightful and inspiring presentation. I too was in last semesters Representational Art class and had the opportunity to view the controvercial images you referred to in class regarding the hostage school situation. I was deeply moved by that slideshow and even more so given the range of emotions and reactions from the students. After viewing the photos last semester I was struck by how I felt as though I was invading the privacy of the families by viewing such a horrible and personal experience fom the luxury of our "bubble", and while I could see their pain and feel sympathy for them, I would shortly return to my seemingly menial daily tasks. I wasn't sure I knew how to handle the situation or how I might feel in a reversed role, though I gained clarity while watching the documentary video this past week that you provided. In it was stated that by showing documentary photos or videos gives them a voice, they know they are victims and by phtographing them they are able to appeal and speak to the outside world. Given that I am able to see documentary photography such as this with an artistic approach translating a message rather than viewing it with a journalist, commerical approach. An important relationship for me is that as we are all artists our ability to communicate through our art is potentially more powerful than we may realize. Thank you for another moving presentation. -Robin
Thank you to David Glen for doing the presentation on "photography as a document and artworka" in the class.
First of all is the European approach vs. us approach. When shooting the pictures of difficult situation, sad moment, and tragedy,it is so important that the photographer communicates well with the people in the photo; to understand them, and to present what they are trying to say to the world through the camera. There is a big difference between a picture that is only beautiful on the surface and a picture that touches viewer's heart. As David said, photography is to "establish a deep complicity and mutual respect for people." It is curel to take pictures only for sell purpose and discard the most essential thing of humanity. I agree in order to take a picture that is an artwork, a photographer should be absolutely love what he/she is doing, so he/she will have the deep mental and emotional connection to the subject and will handle it with great care as composing a master piece. It is shocking to know the story of the photographer who takes only one picture per day of his favorite subjects and those pictures turned out to be his master pieces. It is so true that artists tend to create the miracle pieces of the subjects they devote their hearts to.
-Sabrina Tao
Dear Bill and Dave,
I really want to express how annoyed I am for missing this great oppurtunity to have heard you speak, and to view your photographs. I gather that you are a world traveler and have captured amazing photographs of the world. I would have loved to see your images, how may I see them ,I looked online.
I love culture and different places, since I grew up in India, I find that it is so important to view art with a hollistic approach, and not be limited to the boundaries of what we only know.
Thanks Elektra
Thank you for bringing your experience to our class Dave. Its important to realize the connection art has to its subject and through its connection how we have a connection to them. When you explained the difference of the European approach to the American approach to photography, it reminded me of an old way of medicine that was explained to me once. That doctors used t separate themselves from their patients, to prevent their work from becoming personal and also to become less human in their practice to avoid making mistakes. Sadly I do not recall the details of the discussion further and do not want to go too far as to say something I heard wrong. Needless to say the act of separating oneself in hopes of attaining a new view is an old one. But it has the same effect each time, a somewhat sterile view, it may have the facts and the info, but it lakes the experience of the event and it's people.
I hope you will be able to come to the hoping of the Schools "Invisible Children" show on March 6th. It is to raise awareness of the many children kidnapped to fight guerilla wars in third world countries.
Hey Dave, thanks for presenting to our class! It was great to see your personal insight and to learn about your profession as well as the experiences of fellow photo journalists.
Sometimes when flipping through a magazine it's easy to forget that the subjects in the pictures are real life human beings and not just a form of cheap entertainment. I wish more magazines here would employ the European approach to photography. Maybe then I wouldn't recoil from the tabloid rack every time I went to the grocery store.
People are naturally attracted to drama, which is why ugly and degrading tabloid photography is so prominent. It's easy to point and laugh or gasp or disapprove of those sorts of images. The subjects are portrayed as shallow and meaningless, and that's how viewers think of them as a result.
European photography manages to capture the emotion of the situation without twisting it out of context. I really enjoyed this quote during your presentation: "The great pleasure for me comes when I am able to establish a relationship of deep complicity and mutual respect for people." I don't recall whose quote it was, but it was interesting to discover that the underlying difference between European photography and the trash we print in our tabloids is that the photographer actually cares about his/her subject. And because he/she cares, more care is taken to portray the subject with honesty and integrity.
It's not just an average picture of somebody, it's a story or an emotion conveyed visually within one single frame of film, and one single second of time.
There's so much that can be said about this presentation. It was really enjoyable and so interesting!
I found it so interesting about how the discussion of humanizing of subjects. That really a photographer is not successful if they do not make the viewer feel or question the story of the subject.
I found it really interesting when Dave spoke about Cindy. I worked next to a barber shop for a few years and she used to clean the barber shop so I saw her all the time, I never knew exactly what was wrong with her and I found it so interesting that Dave had not only talked to her, but understood her. It is so hard for many of us to put our judgements aside and just see people for who they are and what their story is. I know the first few times I saw Cindy I had no idea what was going on with her.
It really just shows that it is so important for all of us to do everything with an open mind and really think of what the effects on other people are.
Dave
I would like to thank you for coming to our class and personally giving me a broader sense of photojournalism. I like nick, was able to attend both presentations given at LCAD and I enjoyed them immensely. I always had this idea of the photojournalist being a sneaky and disrespectful type of individual, however after being exposed to your presentations, I have learned about their importance in the world. We need good photojournalists.
After traveling to the Balkan region myself having worked in an orphanage, I felt as though I was opened up to a world that I did not know existed. I was dissapointed with myself for not having known how much about the devistation which occured in this region during my lifetime. Maybe it was my ignorence to this war or maybe there just was not a lot of media coverage in this area but I felt as though this war should have been talked about more than what happened . Anyways, I feel as though it is a social responsiblity of good photojournalists to give us different perspectives on an issue since we are not allowed to be present most of the time. These people have an important role and I really now, more than ever understand their importance. Thank you, Mike
Dave, thank you for speaking to our class. I admire your thought provoking work. I always enjoy seeing different points of view. The difference between our American aesthetic and the European aesthetics is clear to me. Passion should be at the forefront of anything one does but more often than not money is the incentive for the things we do. This technique ruins peoples lives and distorts reality.Photographs can be used in a positive or negative way. In my own work I find passion and honesty for what I do. I admire your work for telling stories that might not ever be seen. A photograph can reveal so much more than just a pretty picture. A photograph is a relationship between the viewer and the image. The image can reveal emotion, a story, a memory, an unseen truth. It is the photographers job to reveal that truth and I believe when you are passionate and honest with yourself about something the truth will come through.
I recently watched a video on a photography website where one particular paparazzi photographer showed what he carried in his bag and explained why he had them and how he utilized each of those tools of the trade. One thing that I found very interesting is that he primarily used fast and long lenses. This gave him the opportunity to be discrete as well as have greater artistic control over his images. He mentions how todays paparazzi just mob their target subjects and shoot wildly with no concern for the aesthetic of the images they capture taking no concern for composition, lighting, and all other aspects of creating an appealing image. He prefers to not just take images of celebrities out and about, but wants to capture appealing images by taking fewer images with more thought and attention to detail. Until I had seen this short video I had never considered the possibility that paparazzi ever took aesthetics into consideration when shooting their subjects and I find it interesting that there are some out there. Aesthetics are important in any industry based on the creation of images be it illustration, fine art, animation, or photography. We have to consider our audience and what they want to see. We have to consider the client and just what sort of images they want to see. And we also take into consideration what it is we want from the images we create. It seems that in todays paparazzi industry that the only aesthetic draw for the tabloids and those that read them is the celebrity being photographed. Just one of many elements that can be attributed to aesthetics is all they're after, the subject, and that takes all the hard work out of their jobs. All they need is a name and they know who they need to take photos of and that's all there is to it. While we as artists must go beyond the name and do all we can to create unique and appealing images that can stand the test of time. Our images take thought, consideration, and a lot of hard work and I think it's far more rewarding to create something that has goes beyond the subject and adds substance.
Darrell
Dave, thank you for your presentation. I have heard you from Bill's last semester History of Representational Painting class and both presentations stirred reactions that were very interesting. I admire what you do and I can tell that you really care and have a connection. It shows in your photographs.
I agree with your statements of aesthetics being what you bring to the things you care about. The discussions reminded me of how I have to be connected to what I care about and not only that I have to pursue it.
Before your presentations I was not aware of all the tragedies that had occurred. Although there were some disturbances to a few people from your last presentation, I believe that people should be informed about these things that are happening. It made me take a step back to appreciate everything I had. I think that you are doing an awesome thing by informing the world of what is going on around us.
Dave, I really identified with the ideas you presented dealing with reaching your audience on deeper level. One obstacle that we as representational artists deal with is how to create work that is more than just decorative. It seems to me that the key to overcoming this is to identify some tangible elements in the work that the audience can connect to in order to experience that kind of familiar aesthetic emotion. It is interesting to hear that photography presents a similar challenge as it requires the same kind of thought process when composing an image.
Thanks for your time,
Beau
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